Should Christians Accept Rewards? Getting Real about Award Shows and Paying Pastors

Ever wondered what really goes on behind the scenes at Christian award shows—and what happens when ministry collides with business and industry? 

In this episode, we dive deep into the debate around worship music award shows and whether Christian artists should receive recognition for their talents. Plus, we get real about the unspoken rules of honorariums for guest speakers and evangelists—who really deserves to be compensated, and where’s the line between blessing and business?

From hilarious outfit shopping in Greece (with a few family secrets spilled!) to hot takes on the true cost of ministry, your hosts Steve and Mary Alessi don’t hold back sharing what actually happens in the business of sharing the faith. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:12 Share This Episode!
• 1:45 Be Consistent
• 3:09 The Greece Story
• 9:50 Lets Talk Business
• 25:31 Business Behind The Scenes
• 29:38 Guest Speakers
• 33:30 Sow Laterally
• 36:12 Bless The Evangelist
• 46:08 Don't Make It About The Money

Transcript

0:00

Because it comes across as very humble on his part, but if we're not careful, then it comes apart. Also comes across as for those who want to take the stage and be recognized, very egotistical and prideful. Hello, welcome to another episode of the Family Business with the. Hey, Alessi's. I'm Steve Alessi here with my wife Mary Alessi. And we are ready to talk big stuff. Today I'm gonna like this particular subject matter because sometimes we talk family. Yeah. But today we're gonna talk business. And since it's the family business with the Alessi, let's talk a little business. Before I do that, I just want to encourage you first. Thank you for joining us. We are able to see over 200 episodes recorded with our podcast. Very excited about that. We have right now, goodness. Closing in on 1 million views on YouTube. So that's a big deal for us. And I'm going to encourage you to do something, if you will, that is take a minute and share this episode with at least two people that, you know, you don't need to share with everybody. But this week, just kind of after listening share it with two people, I think it'll be a great way to introduce what we do here and subscribe. Click the subscribe button. It doesn't cost you a dime. We don't chase you down. We don't send you anything. It just allows YouTube to suggest and put it at the top of your feed so you see it all the time and you don't have to go looking for it. So there's one thing you're going to say about us, Mary, is it's consistency. We try. I think part of being a success in life is being consistent. And you just can't jump from thing to thing to thing, idea to idea to idea, without putting some legs on it and running with it. You've always been big about that. Yeah. Yeah. To an annoying level. But I think it's because it's needed. Well, because it's. It's what produces. Yeah, yeah. There's so many nude things popping up. New fads, new trends. It's so easy to jump ship and jump onto another ship. And I just always. That new thing always troubled me. I like consistency. So that the fact that we have over 200 episodes, we're in our eighth season, means a lot. Sure. That consistency pays off. And we feel like we're just getting started, too. So. Yeah. We have a lot to say. Yeah. I may have to go to my phone a little bit here. Well, because, you know, My sister Debbie. Of all things, she keeps texting you from. She's texting me from Greece. From Greece. Because I asked her to stop him while she was over there and buy me a couple of outfits. Oh, my goodness. Last time I was there, I. Please, let me tell it, okay? Because I'm still a little salty over it. Okay. You know I am. Here's the family before we get to the business. What? No. So I just wonder how many listeners out there deal with this in their marriage the same way we do. Yes, they do. And it's not all the women or all the men. It's whoever. Okay, so we're in Greece, and of course, everything there is so much cheaper than in the States. So when we get halfway through our trip or three quarters of the way through our trip. Yes, we bought a few things. I didn't buy a lot, but we are noticing. I am noticing that there is a couple of clothing lines that are selling these beautiful clothes that we can't get here at an incredibly affordable rate. So I tell you, I suggest very sweetly, okay? I don't demand. I don't say, give me your credit card. I just said I'd like to go buy a few more things. No, that's what you said to me. Really? Yep. Just like that. No. A few more things. Listen, how you phrase that. I wanted to. And I said I wanted to get some things for the girl. She's still texting you, isn't she? Yeah. Go. Yeah. This. The people need to know. They need to know the hypocrisy. Okay? So I get upset. I'm mad. We're in Greece and I'm upset and. But I got over it. So we. I say, that's it, then. I'm not going to buy anything. But I'm. So we're all the friends that we're with because we're on a ministry. How many things did you buy already up to this point? That does not matter. A few things. A few things. I still had room in my suitcase. Okay. That I have to carry, but go ahead. Okay, Go ahead. Anyway, so I say, listen, we're not that far from the town downtown because we were moving around. Let me just go back in for a few more things. We don't need another thing. We've spent so much money. Please, no. Well, then I'm getting texts from all my friends. We're buying more suitcases because we're taking more stuff back. Do you want us to get you a suitcase? So I'm like, nope, I'm gonna Honor and respect my husband because he doesn't want us to spend any more money. Fine. Okay. I think this is an opportunity wasted, but I'm going to submit to this moment. So we do go downtown and we meet everybody and they're all shopping, and. You, up to this point, have not bought anything. That's not true. You bought a few things. A thing or two. Okay, not a few. A thing or two. So what did you do? So one of the. The gentlemen in the. On the trip said, hey, I'm over at this shop. Right? So he. Which you could have said, no, no, thank you. No. I. I was going to go be kind and just meet with him. My wife said, no. He told me he sent me a picture actually of him carrying you and his wife's bags. So it was like, okay, they're out shopping, so let me go over and help them. So when I get to where you guys were, you'd already left. So I walked into this shop. This sounds. Made up, this whole thing. I walked into the shop and I saw. What did you see? I saw a couple of nice, nice outfits for. For like, affordable prices that you can't get. And you can't get them in the United States. Is that correct? So I went. Hard to pass up. Hard to pass up. So I knowing, you know, that I need these for work. It's part of my uniform. Yeah, sure. You need them? Yeah. So I picked up a couple. You did? And then what did you do? Did you tell me. Did you call me and say, I. Asked my friend to carry them for me and if my wife asks, tell him. Tell you that he bought them for me? Yeah. Lies. I was going to tell you the truth. Lies. Eventually. Eventually. I just didn't want to upset the vibe. No, because you knew you already. So hold on. So he did. And then I waited. I was carrying him, but I said, you know, hey, yeah, he got me these because he said he wanted to buy me something. And I felt bad because he bought you something. So then I said, let me, let me just. So then we had to get his wife involved and I had to let her in on the lie. Secret. The secret. A surprise. It was going to be a surprise. Oh, a surprise to give yourself. So I. I got back home and you love the way they looked. Don't. You are really into like, wow, those look really good on you. 38 years, babe. I've already got it all figured out. That's when I had to come out and say, well, I'm glad you like them because I Have good taste. I, I chose them and I bought them for myself. So here's the. The reason you're telling this story today is now my sister is in Greece. And what did you do? At the same place or four blocks from her hotel was this store. And I'd already tried to go online to buy them and I couldn't buy them. They wouldn't sell them internationally. No, I know. I tried to tell you that in Greece. So I have her buying a couple of more. More, huh? Yeah. What, is she going to get something from me too? Did you tell her to throw in? Did you ask her for that? I did. Okay, so that's the. Did you say please do it so Mary will let this go and she'll stop being mad at me? So I did. And I even got an extra one for the guy that took care of me and told my brother in law to get him some. That's how inexpensive these things were. Men's clothes are always less expensive than women's clothes. I'm right sometimes, not necessarily. Sometimes this place was really interesting. But I gotta let you that, that was the summer line that I had. They only have the fall line now, so they're getting me the winter. Now you're just trying to get into the details of it so that I will stop. Okay, I know what you're doing. So that's kind of like inside information here. So if my I pick up the phone, it's because she needs to know my sizes. And you know, I could have, I could have solved this for you if you had just let me. You did have plenty okay. To bring back. So speaking about money, are we talking about money now? Since we're talking about spending so much or some money on clothing, here's what I want to ask you. There's two things I want to get into. And again, you know, we talk family, but we also talk business because our line, there's always the business aspect to what we do. So the ministry, the church, it's a ministry, but there's also the business side of it. Now I've always taken pretty good, you know, pride in knowing the business side of it, knowing real estate, because you got to make sure your church has a, a church home. So if you're going to buy a church home, you got to make sure the numbers are working, your budget, all that aspect, which is why I've got great men around me from day one that were really business minded and I've always leaned into their excellence and expertise. But I've always had that More of a mindset of business and admin. So I saw something that got my attention the other day, speaking about the business aspect of it, and it was the Dove awards were going on, and this is where the industry, the business industry of Christian music wants to recognize the artists and their songs. And so it's an award show that they put on and however you want to, you know, get into the weeds of that, why certain songs and projects get introduced, why they don't. It's all business, all right? It's not just the talent, it's not just how good the song is. There's labels, there's. There's people behind the scenes that put money on the table to make sure the industry is moving forward because it's got to come back and make a profit. Right. So if they're then going to do an award show, they're going to make sure their music, their. Their product is being put out there. Sure. So it's not always just based on the best quality of music. There's the business aspect of it. Right. So when that happens, then artists are invited to these shows. And the people that are behind these artists, where big money is being spent, they know they need to recoup their money. Right. So they want to make sure their art artists are on the stage to then promote their products so that then money can flow their way. That's the business side of it. And the Christian business side of it is no different than the secular business side of it. It's all business. It comes down to finances. And you got to make a profit in order to keep a radio station operating, that Christian radio station, you got to make a profit. If you're going to keep recording beautiful songs that you're going to sing in your chur church or that's going to be on the radio, that's going to just inspire you. You can download to your. Your phone so you can be inspired. All of that is going to require money. So the business side of it. So here's where a little controversy came up that I want to get your take on. A gentleman by the name of Forest Frank. So what's some of his music? Celebrate? Let's have a celebration. Okay. All those. So he had. I think he had a bad accident recent. Recently. He fell off a skating board. Yeah. Hurt his back and broke back and was healed. Was healed. And that just got him a lot more attention because of just how the. The Lord touched his life. And so now he's been in quite a bit of the limelight. But then this past year, Jelly Roll came out and sang on a project, a song which is with Brandon Lake. With Brandon Lake. Hard fought Hallelujah. Hard fought a hard fought Hallelujah. So which is a great song. Okay. I love the song and it's on my playlist and I'm down the road singing it, crying to it, thanking God for all the battles that have been fought on through my life to be able to give a hallelujah to the Lord. We did it. So here was the deal. Jelly Roll was invited to receive an award for that and sing and him and Brandon Lake. But then Forest Frank said he wasn't going to go right to. To the devil because he said he did not feel like one should be given an award for something that God had given them. So I think he said if Jesus gave me this song, then I should not be up in public receiving an award for it. Okay. All right. So that kind of struck me because it comes across as very humble on his part. But if we're not careful, then it comes apart. Also comes across as for those who want to take the stage and be recognized. Very egotistical. Right. And prideful on their part. Right. And so I just wondered what your thoughts on this because this is backyard stuff on the patio. Coffee. Yeah. And we're just. I don't know your opinion yet on this one. So I waited to try to get it. I'm glad you. I'm glad you asked because I do have an opinion about it. You know, my dad won the Dove Award for 1977 for learning to Lean. Song of the year. The biggest award you can get he got for Learning to Lean. And my mom tells the story of. With all the awards that night that were won because I think the Dove awards started like in 1972. So it was an early award show when dad and we went as a family, it was in a ballroom. And at the end they announced the song of the year. That's like the last award they give. And all the other awards, different artists would cover and sing the winners songs. Right. And when they got to my dad's song at the end, the orchestra conductor, Ralph Carmichael had everyone in the audience stand to say, we did not bring in a singer for the song of the year because everybody in the country and in some parts of the world knows this song. It's so famous, let's all stand and sing it. And it was my dad's song. No way. Yeah. So that's one of the greatest honors you could get that your, your song would be Recognized on a level like that to win an award. Song of the year. But then for the award academy organizers to say, who are we gonna get to sing it other than the writer himself? But he didn't make the song famous. Let's just all sing it because we all know the song. And it was the most powerful moment. I think I was 12 years old or something like that when it happened and it was just so memorable. But I could tell you that that moment humbled us that win that award. My sister has it on her mantle, my dad's award. They don't really mean anything in the light of things. We joke about them. They're a good doorstop because they're so heavy. But I don't think there's anything wrong with honoring people who are making it their craft to write good music or any craft or skill. I don't think there's anything wrong with honoring them. If it's already in the person's heart to be prideful, an award's just gonna jack em up more. But if they're already humble, an award is going to make them even more humble because they're gonna feel like they don't deserve it. What did I do? I just downloaded what heaven gave me. But it's a sweet honor. There's nothing wrong with it. My problem with Forest Frank saying that is the aspersions it casted upon everybody else that quite frankly, has been in the industry way longer than him. He just got here. He's not even that. And I love him and I understand what he's trying to say. He's not the first young artist to make that statement. But then he will and is having to eat his words because at some point, you know, you don't realize how prideful that comes across. It's one thing to say that when you're a nobody and you're an up and comer. Okay. It's another thing when you're in a position like he's in, when as far as streams and downloads and an artist overall, he's bigger than all those guys. He's way bigger than all of them. So he needed to be a little bit more humble and mindful, in my opinion of that fact. Because now he's got beef with all those potential beef with all these other Christian. Right. Industry guys. Why would you do that? That. That part doesn't make sense. And jelly roll, I know called it out because he's just coming into this Christian world. He's not the normal guy you'd see. And he didn't call it out in, in a, in a bad way, in a defensive posture. No, the, the interviewer just asked him his question about it and his response was not to slam for. At all. It was really just responding to the whole, hey, this is a great way for us to just recognize each other's gifting and talents. And didn't cast dispersions at all on Frank at all. So it was just. And of course, you got to be so careful when you read interviews because they were always looking for that cat. Oh, yeah. And stir up something. If it bleeds, it leads. They, they want it to be controversial, but it, it brings up a good point. If you have a gift and a talent that is God given right, should you be celebrated to the point that you are on a stage receiving an award for it? Hmm. I personally think it's a beautiful gesture of honor to the person that stewarded that gift. Well, yeah, because there's a lot of people that are great singers, are great songwriters, artists, craftsmen, whatever, and they don't multiply their gifts and their talents. They don't share that gift with the world. They sit on it, they squander it, they hide it. And I think that there's something to be said about people that have the confidence. It takes a lot of confidence to acknowledge that you have a talent to write, to call yourself a writer, a singer, get in the industry with their, the rejection. You know, it's a watered down industry. So watered down. And then you rise to the top and you're writing songs that we're all singing and being inspired by. I mean, there's songs that we sing today that just ignite my faith. Yeah. You know, I can't deny how it builds my soul those words, those, those lyrics, that melody. I want to give an award for that. Yeah. That's an earthly reward because there's definitely a lot of heavenly rewards. Yeah. Because of those songs that are written. Yeah. You know, we're in here with Alan Paul, who is a musician, heads up our music department along with Stephanie. And you know, one thing that you, you recognize in this industry is nobody's gift just boom, blew up. No, no. There's a lot of talented people, singers, musicians that aren't even known. Nope. That's right. They haven't even come to light yet. They haven't even written a song. When, when you see a person that is on a stage today, know they didn't get there by themselves. That's right. Know there was a, a manager behind them. Know there was someone that took A risk that somebody that came alongside of them and consulted, consulted, coached, invested into them, put down the music for the project. That then put them maybe in front of a label somewhere. That's right. That took them and said, all right, we can do this. Or in their independent label was able to go and spend the money with some kind of marketing team that's going to put them out there. Yeah, they didn't get there on their own. It's not talent alone that gets people on some of the biggest stages whose songs were singing today. No matter of fact, even in the. The songwriting world of the Christian industry now where we're singing all these songs from our pulpits, it's almost like a. A songwriting mafia that's out there. No. Yeah. There's a few people that are. That's leading the charge that that's doing the deal. Talk about that person. Well, there, there's definitely a, a small network, very small. They call them the families of writers. And well, they're collaborative but they're all from either different ministries, they're born out of different churches ministries, but then they collaborate one with the other and they're the top five. They basically are writing all the songs that we're singing in the Christian world today. Whether it's CCM or inspirational or in the worship genre, which is what we sing in our churches. It's coming out of five groups and they're all writing together, they're adding all the new writers, the new discovered talent to their five platforms but all of them are co writing together, they're co mingling, they're co producing. So it's very hard to crack through that wall unless you are a part of one of the families. And it wasn't always like that. There was independent artists, there were artists by this label, by that label. That is not the case anymore. Not in the Christian world. In the Christian world, it's the five families that pretty much write 90% of all the music. I don't know if you knew that part. I recently. Maybe you share that article with me. I don't know but I recently read the statistics that people did the research on that in the last five to seven years. That is really how the Christian music world has gone. So somebody like going back to Forest Frank, somebody like him, he's not a part of that. He's his own independent guy that sat in his studio and programmed his own songs and put them out there and went viral. He did have some backing and had some financial support, but he didn't write from that Perspective, he was not brought in or the exposure for him didn't come through one of the five groups. He's this lone ranger out there. So people start the conspiracy theory talk of unless you're one of them, you're a threat, you know, you're talent. I don't know, I don't believe any of that's true. But there definitely is the downside to this whole thing in the industry and the business side is there is a world atmosphere to it that can get very secular and can get very competitive and doggy dog and I wonder if that's not where maybe Forest Frank was coming from. The, the inner green room, inner studio environments where money's involved. Like you said in the very beginning of this podcast. And when money does get involved, things get crazy. Right now we saw it this, we're not telling anything. This was on social media. Maverick City, which was the overseer, collaborator, founder of what we saw Chandler Moore come through, Naomi Rain, Dante Bowe, Naomi Ronan, Naomi Rain and Chandler Moore just completely cut ties publicly. They are no longer with Maverick City. Okay, well, here's the other side of that. Maverick City sued, so there's a lawsuit and guess what? It's over money. So we can talk about double wards and awards, whatever. There's a lot of fighting going on behind the scenes. There's a lot of ungodliness that is because of business that happens behind the scenes so they can make a big deal about the award show. I think they're barking up the wrong tree. If they're going to complain about something, it needs to be the diabolical nature of the love of money being the root of all evil and how it divides even amongst godly writers. Well, yeah, I think when you get in a lawsuit like that, that's where it gets really nasty. I do understand though the business aspect of it because we have been around labels for a long time. Even back in the day when you were doing some of your own stuff, we decided to self publish. And first project we put out, I went and took a second mortgage on the home to take out, I think at the time was about 100 grand, 70 to 100 grand. To get behind your first project way back when. Yeah. And that thing's been able, you know, over the years, produced for us and, and helped us with our own, you know, financial, well, being of property that we own. But things have changed of course in the business. But if there's no money, then there's no money. There's no money. And if there's no money. So here. Here's where some of the. Some of the labels had come into play over the years. They. They did. There was a season when even in Nashville, the Christian labels were doing so good. But we go back today because we're promoting our Metro Life worship and Stephanie's music and your music collab with her. Those. Those labels are gone. Yeah. You can't find them. And the people that were at one label is now gone to another label. And. And the industry shifts so quick that you could be working with somebody, which is. We're so relational focused that if we got a relationship with somebody, that's what's getting us in the door to work with a certain label, only then to find that that person that we've had relationship with is now moved to another label. And now we're like, oh, man, now they're pulling us over to this one or that. That deal, and it's not what it used to be because financially, some of these companies just can't keep it together. No. Because they're not making the profit and people aren't making it. So. So much has shifted. Oh, it has. Which part of me sits back and says, you know what? I kind of like the idea that there's some church people now that are writing songs for churches. And these church. These. These songwriters have come out of church. Right. And that's not bad at all. So Elevations is. Is like the. The big dog in all of this. Bethel elevation. And they're all church people. Yeah, those are churches that this music's coming out of and their labels are coming out of. Yes. And that's cool because it is in the church world, and it's not just some label that's in a Nashville that's doing it solely for business sake. No, there's been a lot of label owners and starters that were not Christian. Guys. I don't know if everybody knows that. That people will see, hopefully. We're not raining on anybody's parade here. I know, but there's a lot of unsaved people at the top of the Christian industry, and they're not looking at it the same way we are. From the perspective of blessing the church, they're shareholders, stockholders, they're investors. They want their money out. So there's a lot of. I mean, put it in perspective. You want to start a Christian label, you need money. You might not necessarily go to all your safe friends. They might not have money, or Christian organizations. You're going to go to people that will say, I'll invest in you if it's a good investment, saved or not. And so you can get a lot of that watered down into the whole industry. And so the, it becomes about money rather than about the music or blessing the church. Part of that you can't help. You know, wasn't Paul a fisherman? Didn't he sell fish? You know what I mean? Right. There's. You have to eat Peter. Did I say Paul was the fisherman? I meant Peter. Paul was a house builder. He was a carpenter, he was a contractor. He didn't do that for free. He was a tent maker, which is the modern day house builder today. Yeah. So my point is, I think sometimes we constrain it in that and miss the camel. Worried about those award ceremonies to bless people that are really in it for the right reasons. And that's the writers and the singers. Yeah, they really are. We're all for people being recognized for their gift. Absolutely. Which leads me to my other comment here. And this is, what's our timing on this ap? I see where we're going. So. Okay, where do we start? More or less. Perfect. Okay. The other part of this was now strictly a matter of should a guest speaker be paid for ministering in the church? So I, again, I don't, I don't do much on social media, but I was doing some surfing the other day, okay, scrolling, I guess it's called doom scrolling, doom scrolling. And I came across the deal where a guy was asked, they're talking, should you be paid for, you know, as a pastor, a speaker, evangelist, going into a church and preaching, should you get an honorarium for that? Right. And so one guy happened to mention something about, you know, when I go, it cost me something to go. Right. Cost me time to go. It cost me time away from my church to go. It cost me people to go with me. And so then the whole conversation came up about, oh, you mean your entourage. And. And so it was like, well, yeah, because the man evidently traveled with some, some people and bodyguards. I don't know, security. I don't know. And that's where it kind of blew up and so on. And it was like, wow, that's a lot to pay for when you go to a. A ministry, a church, you know, so. But the whole question was, should a guest speaker be paid when they come to your church? What do you think? I'm all over that. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I think. Couple of things now. There are some, you know, there's balance here and we've got to be sensitive to it. But I believe every church knows when a guest speaker or a guest artist comes in that they are going to be compensated for their time being there. Scripture tells us that there is that if you're going to tread out the corn, you got to be able to pay for the heifer that's treading out the corn. There is that something's coming. You're going to be paid for the work that is. Now that work of yours is producing something of value for the people. They're being nourished by it. So you have to be able to take care of that. Part of it is honor you honor the gift. Scripture talks about double honor being given to those who especially bring out the word. So there is always that compensation for it, not just because they got to pay for their supper. As one of my friends used to say that you're there to work and whatever you work. And that's just enough for you to, you know, take away for what you worked. No, there should be some residue. There should be something in that individual's life that gifts life that financially you sow into. And the reason I believe that is so is I believe in the spiritual principle of sowing up. Yeah. To a gift that's blessing you. All of us are called to give money, to use our financial resources as a giver, to bless people. All right? I call it sowing. So when we're talking about giving, we're talking about sowing, like the principle of sowing seed. So we're all supposed to one sow down. Right. So to those who are in need, so whatever that looks like to you as you are blessed, you want to use your financial resources on occasion to be able to help people come up. So you're called to sow down. You're also called to sow laterally. You. You bless friends of yours that you are in relationship with just because your buddies, your friends. And you know what, you want to pick up the bill for dinner, they don't need you to because they can afford it. But you just want to do it because, man, I love you. I appreciate you. You're going to sow laterally. But then there are times in our lives when we need to be elevated, and to do so, we need to sew up. Yeah, we need to sew up into someone that has something we value and we honor. Yeah. So in this case, we sew up. So let's just look at it from our church's standpoint. We. We support ministries that are in Cuba and that are in foreign countries. And whenever there's a need A hurricane came through North Florida last year. We provided a roof for a lady who lost her roof, a widow woman. So we sow to those who are in need that's sowing down. We also sow to guest speakers or ministry friends of ours that have just been a blessing to us over the years, and we just want to honor them and just thank them. They don't need it, but yet we do it to show value and show appreciation for what they do for our ministry and who they are in our lives as pastors and leaders of our church. But then we also sew up to guest speakers that come in that have a bigger ministry than ours, right. That have a bigger influence than ours. We sew up to them because we know, okay, God, we want to go where they are at, right? Wherever they are going, we want to go there. So when a guest speaker then comes into the church, you should be able to sow into that guest because of the gift and the anointing that's on their life. And that is going to help your church, your life, your organization go to where they are, spiritually speaking. Sure, you may not be there. You, you may be strong and have your own level of ministry and, and, you know, spirituality and spiritual walk with God, but it's always good to have more, to be stronger. They elevate more voice. So you so up into that. So, yes, to answer the question, from my perspective as a leader of an organization that brings in guest speakers, yes, the gift should be honored financially. Yeah. What do you think? Well, I agree with that. I think that's something you and I have worked out over the years of 20 plus years pastoring, 25 plus years pastoring. I come from an evangelist family, so I remember traveling around the country most of my childhood and we would go to some churches and the pastor was just elaborate and would see us as a gift and bless us. My mom has so many stories of that ignited our faith to stay on the road and do what God called us to do. Because to think that that evangelist, that traveling evangelist has it easy is to not understand how hard that road is too. And you've got to be called to do that, number one. So when you'd go to a place and they would just, they had the revelation that you just spoke about and they would sow into our family and sow into the gift that was on my dad's ministry and my mom's ministry and us, it not only blessed us, there was an even exchange of just tremendous elevation because then we went to the Next level of faith, as we left a deposit, we were also deposited into. Then we'd go to places where they would act like we do the same ministry, give the same amount of gift, pour out this. How do you sing a half a song? How do you preach a half a sermon? You know, we didn't give them less. But the pastor's revelation or even the people's revelation was similar to that video you saw on social media. People shouldn't get paid. Well, then don't invite evangelists. Just don't invite them. But we'd go and we'd still minister, give our all, everything that we would always give. Yeah. And we would leave and say, we're never going back there again. So there was no exchange, There was no blessing. So when we have people come to our church, number one, we're very mindful about who we invite. We invite on relationship. Relationship. So there's no absolutisms here. There's no right or wrong. It's. It's back to the award show. And there's no, you should pay them. You shouldn't pay them. Come on. It's. It's as is. As it is in your heart and what your revelation is and to the gift that you want to sow into and then have that gift so into. You think you make the decision that way. But I do believe that in those, the fivefold gifts of the church, they all deserve to be compensated so that those people can thrive in those gifts. Or we don't have the gifts. Yeah. And that's the bigger part of this. If you don't have the evangelist come, if you don't have the guest speaker come to pour into your ministry, to take it to the next level because of money, well, then you leave the church at the level it's at. When sometimes evangelists can come and be like a defibrillator to the soul of that church one weekend and they bring a word that just changes everybody. The church is never the same. Right. Well, the pastor needs that. He needs that support. That's why God gives the gift of the evangelist to the evangelist. This is the business side of what we do that, you know, people may not understand. And sometimes they may feel like it's carnal. Yeah. But yet you, you have to be able to operate in a very businesslike manner if you're going to operate a church like we are able to operate. Yeah. So we do know the give and take. We know what it takes financially to bring a guest here, that they're going to be treated in the best way in their travels. We don't want a person traveling on an airplane 5, 6, 7 hours, and when they get here, they're exhausted because they sat in tiny seats. We're going to make sure they have a level of comfort when they show up. We want them to show up and be their best. When they produce, we're going to put them in nice facilities in town to make sure that they're comfortable and they're being honored. And when they do, when we do that, it's amazing what they then bring to the table. That's true. They bring their best. And they have to because five, six, seven hundred to a thousand people's lives are weighing on every word, on the message, on the song. They're weighing on that. And it makes a big difference when these people show up ready to give and when you honor them before they even get here, just walking in, you know, as guests going to hotels, walking in, and there they have, you know, a nice basket, a gift basket waiting for them that's filled with drinks, filled with things that now their brain's not going to even have to touch. I need this or I need that. No, just it. Letting them see that you value them by thinking ahead. We're going to bless you with a gift or give you a gift basket or give you a gift. We're going to go buy you a purse or get you a pin set. And we honor them, man. That honor then opens the door for the delivery of the gifting and the anointing that is on their life so that then our organization is even better when it's all over. And the money that was spent as a seed into their life, just as a return to harvest so much bigger. Yes. Now there's a balance. Yeah, I was going to. I was going to bring the other side of that, though. So tell me the other side of it. So that's where. That's our approach. But the other side is the. The gift of the evangelist. The guest speaker has really been prostituted horribly. So what goes from a. It is our blessing to leave that gift basket. It's our blessing to make sure there's somebody to pick them up to serve them so that they can bring the gift. Now there's another side of it where the guest speaker goes in with, these are my expectations. So either here's my rider, which is a term of a contract. If I'm going to come, I want Fuji water. I want no salt almonds. You know, I want. You know, I don't want the room on the end by the elevator. I mean, all those expectations, and now it becomes the demands of the guest speaker. Now, some of that is born out of goodwill because they travel all the time and they're not always well taken care of. There are organizations out there that do a terrible job at hosting people. So I get that. I've been there. But there's a balance between requesting and some suggestions that will guarantee my time or your time as the guest is comfortable. And then there's moving into making demands that this is what I require in order for me to come. The minute we see that we are turned off, it shuts off the resource that they are to us because we realize, all right, this just went to their head. That's too far. This isn't about a blessing exchange. This is about meeting my demands because I'm important. And that's the spirit we just won't tolerate. Well, that's why we let relationship be like a filter. Yeah. If we don't know them and know their heart, we're not going to invite them just to pull a crowd. We don't want to pull a crowd. We don't want to have a guest bring people in because usually when the guests leave, the people that he brought in leave right with them. That does not help the local church. All right. We don't treat our church like a crowd. No. And you can do that at a conference that you go pay for guest speakers. Great. Blow in, blow up, blow out. Wonderful. Our business, our church, we don't treat that way. No. And we don't have a lot of guests. No. You know, because we're. We're selective in who we bring. I mean, I've just been praying and asking God as you know, for a good prophetic word. Yes. And I haven't been able to find that person that could come in relationally that I know is pretty stable, that will come in without a whole writer, a list of this more trouble than. So. So we're very selective in who we bring, but when the gift of the person that we know comes to town, we're going to bless them the best way possible within a fair and reasonable measure. And. And I think that's the blessing on the other side of that, you know, you can't help those abuses. No. You. No, that's not. For. That's. I help it because we help it. We're just not going to have those people in our sphere. And, Mary, over the years, you and I have been protected, and this is all church, you know, conversation here. God has protected us from the wrong relationships. Right. And I don't know if it's in my knower. And you've had people say to you before, my gosh, how does Steven pick up on that? I don't know. But you do. I don't know if it's just in my knower. I don't know if it's because over the years, I've just been. Be in too many back rooms, green rooms. You're familiar with it, or if it's. Just, you know, discerning of the spirit. I can just pick up on that stuff a mile away. And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna fight it. I'm just not gonna embrace it. There's a time to embrace or time to refrain from embrace, and that's. Right. Refrain from embracing. I'm not gonna embrace that person or that gift because it's not in line with my gift, my spirit. You know what I want, my values. It's going to have to be relationship focused. And I didn't always. I mean, I violated that earlier this year, and sure enough, man, it bit me right in the. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it did. I took a chance on somebody, and then they ended up trying to promote without me knowing that they had a whole mastermind thing going on. And it cost the people that signed up so much money to do so. And I was like, wait, no, no, dude, you didn't tell. You didn't clear that with me. I didn't know you were going to promote your own stuff when you came in here. You didn't bless my church. You. You took stuff out of my church, plus you took an offering out of my church. So. No, there's. I try my best to make sure I know the gift that's coming in, but we do agree it's important. And I would. I would just say don't make it about the money. Right. Make it about the seed that you're sowing in. Yeah. To this gift. And that seed's going to give you a harvest that's going to really be a blessing to your life. Yeah, I like that. That's a good way to measure that. I mean, that's what your sister's involved in right now. She's a road girl. They passed her. But the majority of the ministry these days is taking her and her girls on the road. Yeah. Yeah. And you've seen how people that don't honor that gift financially and. And with honor, they don't. It's hard for Martha and her team to give. Yeah. It is 100. It's hard for you to give back in the day if that's not being honored. And we protected you. Oh, my goodness. Yes. 95 of those trips. But you did have a few that you walked into and you're like, wow, I can tell they're not ready for what I'm bringing. That's right. And it'll make you want to quit. If you stay in environments as a road person that people don't understand the exchange of blessing that you bring, you'll just. The gift will be thwarted at that point. For you, babe, you were leaving your family and you were leaving your church to go minister elsewhere. Too high of a cost. They had to make sure they honored you. You. Right. Because if you're walking away and sacrificing all of this, there had to be a better blessing on the other side. And most of the time it was. Yeah, people get this. Most people do. Yeah. This isn't a conversation most people have, though. They don't know the behind the scenes, which is why I think it's good to have so that people our coffees out. I'm almost out of coffee. Well, we're almost out of time. Maybe that's the sign. That's it. Well, thank you for joining us for another episode of the Family Business with the Alessi. Make sure you share this with at least, come on, two people, not at least just to commit to sending it to two. And you'll help us be able to spread the business with as many people as possible. Thanks for listening. Take care. Thanks so much for joining the Family Business today. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to follow or subscribe. Share it with a friend and leave us a review. 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